British soldiers beating Iraqi kids

[giza]

I think the title says it all, really. The commentary from the person filming the video is just as disgusting and shameful as the actions of the troops.

But remember kids, it's not fascism when we do it!

Comments

[gen-talon.livejournal.com]

Oyi..troops like that, give us other troops who try to do the right thing a bad name.
*shakes head*

[giza.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd love to see those guys get made an example of.

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

What's the context? I mean...these weren't kids who just happened to be walking by eating ice cream and singing nursery rhymes...

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

What you didn't see was those kids throwing rocks and bottles a few minutes earlier.

[giza.livejournal.com]

For some reason, the name "Rodney King" comes to mind...

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

Well it was pretty bad, but at least they didn't jsut drag them around the corner and shoot them. That said the camera man should have been arrested.

[sirfox.livejournal.com]

makes me sick. Whatever the kids had done, they're human beings, with inherent rights. I'm pretty sure that NOT having the crap kicked out of you by four people twice your size is one of those rights. People do dumbass shit like this, and then wonder why so much of the world wants nothing to do with us. I don't care if the person in question is from iraq, ireland, ipanema, or iowa. Nobody deserves to be treated like that.

It's not like the kids were kicking and screaming and armed, which might explain some kind of beatdown before they were handcuffed and secured. They were walked without resisting into that courtyard before having the snot kicked out of them.

I'm hopefully going to be seeing my cousin this weekend. He's a captain in the US army over there, training Iraqi officers. I trust him to do a good job of things over there, at least.

[puctiger.livejournal.com]

When you arrest someone for disorderly conduct, you don't drag them around the corner and billy club them. You detain them -- which they initially did -- arrest them, charge them with a crime, and follow the nation's laws and procedure in dealing with those in custody. You aren't judge, jury, and executioner.

Not to mention, they waited until the kids were out of public eye to beat them for, what seems the most obvious, fear of reprisals because of . . maybe the bad perception the public would have?

Now with that being said, I can understand the troops feeling frustrated at rioting and stone-throwing and name calling. It's not an easy job. But that's part of the problem -- having troops do a job that's meant for people trained to be policemen. Troops aren't trained to handle those kinds of situations, and so unfortunately they don't know when they've gone too far. They probably assume it's fair -- an eye for an eye sort of thing. But until we can get a secure police force trained in Iraq, we're going to continue to trust soldiers to do a good job and -- it doesn't matter which army from which country (so I don't put blame directly on the UK or the US) -- they're going to do the exact opposite.

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

So a bunch of hoodlums got spanked. Yeesh, I remember catching WORSE than that when I did something stupid.

Seriously, just think back to some of the stupid shit that WE used to do as kids, and think of how fast WE used to run because we knew-we KNEW-that our asses would be paddled so bad we wouldn't be able to sit down for a week.

The only reason this is considered "outrageous" is because:

1. It's soldiers.
2. People have forgotten the usefulness of corporal punishment in dealing with unruly kids.

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

And that's the thing...not being properly prepared. We also don't know how long these little riots have been going on, how many people have already been detained. If it's been a lot and it's not having any effect, then a mental snap with this as the result is not a far stretch to imagine.

Doesn't make it right, of course.

I just get annoyed when things are presented out of context... like the "photojournalists" who took multiple pictures of the same guy carrying around a dead Iraqi child and taking _multiple_ "OMG, JUST Pulled From The Rubble!" shots...all...damn...day. And the same people taking a dead girl out of an ambulance to take other photos. All for the sake of shock value.

I'm sick of all the sensationalism. It makes it so you can't tell what the reality is anymore.

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

Bravo. Although...the kick in the nuts was kinda rude. Owie.

[puctiger.livejournal.com]

Why would you arrest someone for filming? Are people not allowed to report any more? :)

[nintendo-chic.livejournal.com]

Huh, I didn't know that it was acceptable in any way, shape, or form to harm a child. I would think soldiers wearing bulletproof armour could take a couple of pebbles and a water bottle in stride.

Is it just me, or did the cameraman really sound like he was getting off on watching that?

Honestly, if these soldiers could straight-up BEAT a fucking kid, I'm beyond concerned or worried. No matter the context, children should NEVER be treated that way, and to accept it in any form makes a monster out of men.

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

When you arrest someone for disorderly conduct, you don't drag them around the corner and billy club them. You detain them -- which they initially did -- arrest them, charge them with a crime, and follow the nation's laws and procedure in dealing with those in custody.

Try visiting the UK for more than a week or two.

Doctors in trauma clinics and hospitals in the UK have started telling the police that they will NOT file a police report on any kids they bring in that look like they've been roughed up, so long as there are no internal injuries or broken bones.

Kids-correction...Neds, Coagies, Chavs, Snafs, Scallys, Spides, Townies-in the UK will set fire to buildings-sometimes even occupied-just to draw out the fire brigade so they can throw rocks and molotov cocktails at them or shoot at them with BB guns.

Fire and ambulance services in some cities flat out refuse to go into Ned/Chav neighborhoods and will simply let the place burn to the ground unless they get a police escort.

Also, in Iraq, it's probably not a crime to give a kid a good spanking and roughing up. So far as Iraqi law might be concerned, it might be alright to do everything but kill them.

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

Yyyyyyeaah, that was a bit outta line. I mean the guy didn't get a running start like some would, but it was still a no-go zone.

[giza.livejournal.com]

> I'm sick of all the sensationalism. It makes it so you can't tell what the
> reality is anymore.

Amen to that.

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

The guy filming was a British soldier.

[puctiger.livejournal.com]

Try visiting the UK for more than a week or two.

No thanks. After what you said below that comment, it seems like the U.K. isn't a nation of laws, but rather of gangs, where the police fit in as their own gang when misfits and whatever go thrashing through town for no apparent reason.

As for Iraqi law, we shouldn't speculate unless we know. However, since the drafting of the constitution and the enactment of new laws, it'd be hard to assume that with Western governments peeking over the shoulders of legislatures that beating citizens is okay and would remain on the books.

The U.K. is part of the occupying army, and if they want to win the 'hearts and minds' of the Iraqi people, you don't purposefully do anything to put yourself in the wrong light -- which they obviously were.

[puctiger.livejournal.com]

So what's wrong with filming again? Soldier, reporter, barber, vacationer, housewife . . . The guy is kind of a prick on film, but why isn't he allowed to take film?

[giza.livejournal.com]

> Is it just me, or did the cameraman really sound like he was getting off on
> watching that?

Yes! o.O

Getting slightly offtopic here, one of the reasons why I'm such a big fan of the country of Denmark is that under their legal system, striking a child is illegal. You hit a kid, you get charged. Period. End of story.

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

Huh, I didn't know that it was acceptable in any way, shape, or form to harm a child.

Heh! I'm guessing you were born after 1980, when corporal punishment-spanking- became a "bad thing" in the eyes of the public.

I grew up in the 70's, when it was still the norm and was quite effective in "socializing" otherwise unruly brats. Most other countries outside of the US, Canada and Europe have no problem with spanking their kids, but it's become politically correct to knuckle under and be "supportive".

*snort*

I got spanked all of three times when I was a kid, and I never did those things ever again.

Were you not paying attention?

[bobmage.livejournal.com]

Those were clubs, not paddles. They break bones. They crack skulls. They kill people if the user is careless, and those guys were having too much fun to be careful.
Shit like this is what recruits terrorists - and don't blame the camera, those kids have friends & families, some of whom will just go about applying some corporal punishment right back, with a better escape plan, or better weapons.

[nintendo-chic.livejournal.com]

I figured it would have something to do with the fact that he didn't help those kids, who just plain didn't deserve to have soldiers come down on them like that. Not to mention he was pretty vocal on how he enjoyed watching them being beaten. Which is, you know, fucking sick.

[puctiger.livejournal.com]

There's no argument from me that the guy who took the film was sick and twisted. But what I was getting at is the sentiment that having access to facts and media is a bad thing. I've sat in on too many conversations down where I'm at by conservatives who just sit there, shaking their wrinkly fist at those 'damned liberals' and the 'damned media' for producing stories. A lot of folks want censorship of the media . . which is frightening to me.

[nintendo-chic.livejournal.com]

Oh trust me, I got it pretty bad when I was little (belt and all), lol. I was born in '86. Spanking is a far cry from flat-out beating kids in public, and by British soldiers no less.

Re: Were you not paying attention?

[giza.livejournal.com]

+1, Insightful

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

The cameraman sounded like he was getting off.
And I disagree about the kids. To be honest if a bunch of "kids" - and they aren't that young - started throwing crap at me, and I caught one, he'd get a baton across the arse.

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

We have better police than the US, thanks. Seig Bush, y'know?
Actually what Ionotter is on about is pretty much the worst areas, the "LA Riots" sort of places.

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

Filming is fine. I just think he sounds like a dangerous maniac and needs taking away and throwing to a pack of attck Psychiatrists...

Re: Were you not paying attention?

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

Oh wah. If hte kids were stupid enough to go up against a coupl eof armed squaddies, tehy deserve it. Hey - the Americans would have just opened fire on them. Maybe hte British soldiers should follow suit?
And what about those poor guys who are getting briked and assualted? Where's your sympathy for them? Oh it's diferent when some shitty arsed street punk gets his arse kicked but human beings aren't soldiers - htey don't have friends and family and hey, it's a war zone, they must be having FUN! Why I'll bet being attacked every day is something they all look forward to!

Oh wait. Sorry, does this not gel with your black and white world view that all soldiers are robots with no human feeling and that anyone htey take a baton to is surely innocent?

[omnibahumut.livejournal.com]

Right so... the kids deserved it if they did something to the soldiers. And then the families/friends of those kids think they now have a right to retailiate because of what happened to thier friends/friends, and then the soldiers retaliate to that.

Sorry, you're not going to get anything fixed that way, because then you start pointing fingers on who started it.

[ryvex.livejournal.com]

Remember everyone, we are in a war against Extreme Islamic Fundamentalists..and we are a country run by Extreme Catholic Fundamentalists.

Suprise!

Re: Were you not paying attention?

[bobmage.livejournal.com]

First of all, dipsh*t, I spent 12 goddamn years in the military(9 years active). If I hadn't had a bad taste in my mouth over the 2000 elections, I'd still be in the reserves, and been sent over there myself. The soldiers and sailors I served with were all good people, and deserve better then to be in harms way because a dimwitted national guard quitter needed a way to distract us from his failures.

The point isn't whether the kids "deserved it" (and how do you know they grabbed the right kids?), the point is that, _guaranteed_, someone will want "revenge", and maybe next time it will be molotov cocktails instead of rocks. Or one of those kids will see a roadside bomb being set up, and offer to help. Or, ten tears from now, a little brother will keep his nose clean, come in on a student visa, and do something nasty.

No question about it - those kids were "in custody". That means that they were already "controlled" and were not a threat. Allowing soldiers to revenge themselves on captured enemies is forbidden by the Geneva Conventions, which, contrary to popular opinion, are the law of the land in the US, and presumably the UK. By giving in to their impulse for revenge, those soldiers are giving aid and comfort to the real enemies of civilization(you know, the ones hiding in Afganistan/Pakistan, who killed a few hundred brits on 9/11, who celebrate every time the US or UK screws up like this).

Yes, those soldiers are in a hellish place, under constant threat of attack. So get them the hell out of there, and back home so they can be the people they want to be, not the people war is turning them into.

[firedhusky.livejournal.com]

Those are FIRST CLASS terrorists ! better kill them while they are young, so they dont grow up to super trained machines of terror.

AND the guy is actually kicking him on the nuts, so they cant reproduce and bring more terrorists to life!

but but... i though iraquies loved their new freedom ! poor bastards.

Soldiers have a code of conduct and honor, obiously... not this guys. and that IS not a combat situation where some actions are understandable.

whoever agrees that this kids needed to be ruffed up like that, i ll sugest you do the same to your kids or brothers where you live and THEN call me from jail and tell me is still ok to beat the living shit out of a kid.
As a matter of fact, go out and beat an animal like that you still would end in jail.

ruff up... ok, bit the living shit out of a kid, not so ok.

[giza.livejournal.com]

> AND the guy is actually kicking him on the nuts, so they cant reproduce and
> bring more terrorists to life!

Wait... I thought babies came from the stork?

Re: Were you not paying attention?

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

I'd rahter they were home.
But I can also sympathise with the squaddies. I'm sorry... wait, no I'm no. I totally understand why they did it. It's provocation, pure and simple. If htose little shits hadn't have been throwing stuff, they wouldn't have got a beating.
And if they're going to go on and get "revenge", they will anyway.
What were the 11/9 hijackers getting revenge for? Was it personal or ideological?
Why I do believe it was ideological! Gasp!
And Bin Laden, a billionaire Suadi prince. I assume he's picking on the US becuase an Americna soldier stepped on his puppy once?

[firedhusky.livejournal.com]

Well, they do !

but terrorist have special avilities that only exist in 3rd world countries that we are not aware of.

This avilities also permit them to develop weapons SO advanced, that we cant see or find. But we know they are there !

So just in case, we kick them in the nuts :)

[giza.livejournal.com]

You know, that sounds like a couple of lines right out of a Southpark episode? :-)

[firedhusky.livejournal.com]

:)

from "I Drew This"

[bikerwalla.livejournal.com]

"I had to hit him! He possesses hands, so he might, in theory, have hit me some day!"

[bikerwalla.livejournal.com]

Oh they're not Catholic. Definitely Protestant fundamentalists.

They ARE apocalyptic, owing a lot of their Mideast policy to a literal interpretation of the Book of Revelation. Not to put too fine of a point on it, they believe the world has an obligation to keep the nation of Israel on the map, so that we may bring about the Second Coming, for only then will the Jews convert.

[gen-talon.livejournal.com]

The whole thing is a real mess pretty much.
In GTMO the detainees KNEW that we were pretty much not allowed to touch them. They knew and did everything in their power to have us retaliate back at them so they can scream out. "Geneva Convention!" at the Internatiol red cross that was allways watching.

But thats off the subject. Its an odd situation here. On one side the soldiers let emotion take over and lost their military bearing. On another side somethings kids need a good beating once in a while. (Hell I got beat when I did bad stuff) But still, from a soldiers point of view, that was out of line but..I don't know how the British Army handle things.

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

Some people need to go read George Orwell's Shooting an Elephant..

[wildw0lf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, too bad their faces are all but blocked out, and the video feed was taken from so far away.

And then we sit and wonder why the Muslim community hates us so much!?

[agrajag-fur.livejournal.com]

I second that

[cerisewolf.livejournal.com]

4 dead in Ohio huh

[furahi.livejournal.com]

I just had to mute the video halfway through.
Yes, what the soldiers did was horrible and just wrong, but that guy filming was disgusting.

I wonder though, how the video made it to the media/internet...