Did I just get a cart00ney legal threat from Canis Claxis?

[giza]

 
So, I haven't been too active on WikiFur lately, other than checking the Recent changes page on a daily basis to make sure there aren't any major vandalism sprees. It was during my daily check yesterday when I saw this edit. Now on WikiFur, we take issue when people remove content from articles without any explanation. Such edits are almost always reverted because they go against the discussion-oriented nature of how the Wiki works. So, the individual came back and did the same thing, and it went back and forth until the article was finally protected. Then the individual proceeded to pull the same stunt over the article's Talk page until we protected that page too.

Quite persistent of them, aren't they?

So then this appeared in my mailbox:

X-Originating-IP: [4.224.114.123]
From: peg chernicky <jhegalk@hotmail.com>
To: <doug.muth@gmail.com>
Subject:
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:06:06 -0600

Here's something you should read;

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in article 12, states:

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Countries such as France protect privacy explicitly in their constitution (France's Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen), while the Supreme Court of the United States has found that the U.S. constitution contains "penumbras" that implicitly grant a right to privacy against government intrusion, for example in Griswold v. Connecticut (1965). Other countries without constitutional privacy protections have laws protecting privacy, such as the United Kingdom's Data Protection Act 1998 or Australia's Privacy Act 1988. The European Union requires all member states to legislate to ensure that citizens have a right to privacy, through directives such as Directive 95/46. If the privacy of an individual is breached, the individual may bring a lawsuit asking for monetary damages.

Keep my real name OFF wikifur or I WILL drive to PA and SUE your godamn ass

Wait, what? France? Did I just move to France? balinares, get the car, we're going drinking in Paris! And when did the US join the European Union? I don't think I got the memo...

What's even more amusing here is that the individual failed to state the basis for their claim (no specific edits were cited, zero matches for "peg chernicky" on Google, etc.), there is not much I can reasonably be expected to do here. It's a shame, because they went to all that trouble to try and intimidate me... you'd think they would at least have the decency to make specific demands. In fact, had I not noticed the last line of that email, I would have thought that it was just some random spam that used captcha evasion techniques.

So, do any folks out there know if "peg chernicky" is an actual alias of this "Canis Claxis" fellow? Should I be concerned? Or should I just keep up with the uncontrollable giggling I've had for the last 5 minutes?

[Edit, 18 Nov 2009: Changed links to point to WikiFur's new location.]

Comments

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Dear Peg/Canis/WiddleWilly/$Name,

In the matter of the first part, the inclusion of your real life name in a wiki. No doubt as you seem to be all knowing, you understand that a Wiki is editted and submitted by many, many people all over the world. It is not I who have included your real name on the Wikifur page. Thus you are threatening the wrong person. Who should you be threatening? Gee, I don't rightly know - after all, what could you have possibly done in the past that would alienate anyone into wishing to harass you? Narrow that list down and talk with them.

IN the matter of the second part, human rights. I rather doubt the Haigue court is going to give your claim as much weight as, say, the genocidal attrocities of the Nazis last century. Having ones name on a webpage has all the human rights abuse as being served a warm beer at lunch. But if you are willing to give it a shot, go ahead and make your legal challenge.

Which brings up the third point. For all that people laugh about the poor geographical knowledge of US citizens, at least our population understands the simple concepts of HERE and THERE. I, you see, and my webpage, are HERE. You, your courts, and the EU laws you mention are all the way over THERE. The laws of THERE no more apply HERE as the laws of HERE apply THERE. If you care to fly from THERE to HERE and charge me with a crime, you'll need a law from HERE first. And as I've broken no HERE law and your THERE laws have no weight HERE, you may as well save your 250 frequent flier miles (okay, 402 kilometers - geez) and stay home all day watching the french version of Cartoon Network like you usually do.

You can, of course, try to charge me with a crime THERE in a THERE court of law. But since I am not a Citizen of THERE nor do business THERE or even visit THERE, I strongly doubt you'll be able to press for extradition from HERE to THERE.

But don't be too sad about it. I'll TRY to keep your real name off the wiki posts. Note that this does not guarantee compliance and no warranty is implied, your mileage may vary, do not taunt happy fun ball, close cover before striking, use only in a well ventilated area, not intended for internal use, follow directions carefully, contents may explode if heated, not for public viewing with explicit written consent of the National Football League.

To summarize: Piss off.

[bigtig.livejournal.com]

The person being an idiot and a frothy legal-threat aside, it is an interesting side effect of the wiki concept.

People will talk about you on this new wiki site. They will post details. They often want to post fully detailed accounts of things you might consider private.

When you try to remove it, they won't let you. You must participate in their system and "discuss" things the way they want.

I've seen several people this has irked. Think of it from their perspective:

Unless you play exactly by the rules of some system you don't know about, and don't want to be a part of, the folks who run it feel it's free license to be an asshole back at you for not participating.

The very nature of a wiki almost breeds tiny little doses of Streisand effect.

[ashmcairo.livejournal.com]

If he wants his name removed then remove it. WikiFur has allowed other users to remove their identify for the site, so why not his?

[giza.livejournal.com]

Actually, we try to be pretty flexible on the "discussion" bit. We've had people contact us via email and IRC before and have discussed the matter with them if they don't feel comfortable doing it on the Wiki. Many times we'll just honor the person's request and remove their name from the Wiki without much in the way of discussion. greenreaper handles most of that, so you'd have to ask him if you want numbers.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Part of the problem is that he tried removing content from an article without explanation. That doesn't sit too well on many Wikis, WikiFur included. After it was restored, he began removing larger and larger portions of the article, and then the talk page, which is basically vandalism, and not permitted on the Wiki.

Had he been less of a jerk his email to me, things would have went much differently.

[puctiger.livejournal.com]

Problems with the supposed lawsuit claim that make it impossible to sue for.

#1: The United States does not have any privacy laws on the books that protect one's name from being used if someone is considered an adult and not a minor.

#2: The claim isn't false, thusly one cannot sue for libel or slander. If someone claimed the person was, in fact, someone that he wasn't, then it would be FALSE information. However, this country protects the right to receive information more than it protects the right to hide it.

#3: Though the U.S. is a signatory on the U.N. Declaration of Universal Rights, it is not considered a piece of law which must be followed. It is not a treaty that has been accepted into law by Congress nor ratified by any of the states. Thus, it is not law, but rather as the name states -- a declaration.

#4: Proving monetary damages is somewhat improbable if not impossible. Proving that one was harmed in some way by having one's name posted on a website has been proven time and time again to be useless and frivolous. Was the person hindered in any way to receive a promotion or job opportunity? Can you prove mental damages? I mean, the person sounds mentally unstable as it is -- how can one prove he was pushed 'over the edge'?

#5: Internet threats are about as meaningful as flicking someone off in traffic. Until wikifur receives a certified letter from an actual attorney's office, the threat is worthless. So if you get contacted by the guy again, tell him to grow some nuts and make a real plausible threat.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Who should say something? Me or him? (Sorry, it's unclear to me who that was directed to.)

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

So... if he emailed you guys and asked politely, you'd remove his name?

[giza.livejournal.com]

Quite possibly. Though he probably try his luck with another admin. I'm a tiny bit annoyed at him right about now.

One of the reasons why I posted this (which maybe I should have elaborated on) is that I don't take kindly to people making baseless legal threats in an attempt to coerce others into doing things.

[ashmcairo.livejournal.com]

Well, instead of antagonizing him further then simply remove his name and drop the issue. Granted he should learn something about tact/humility, but no one's going to teach him that over a wiki.

[tugrik.livejournal.com]

"That doesn't sit too well on many Wikis"
"Had he been less of a jerk his email to me, things would have went much differently."

This is what bothers me the most about the 'wiki mentality'. Things that someone wouldn't dream of doing on their own (as they'd be held accountable for it) they gladly do, endorse and defend once they have the shield of the Wiki around them. This allows them to say things like "Hey, *I* didn't post it. J. Random Public did. All I do is maintain the wiki, and keep the information flowing!"

It's no different than schoolyard bullying. One kid might not go pick on the other as he'd get in trouble or in a fight. But get a dozen random kids to pitch in and help taunt, and suddenly no one person can get the blame. Pull any one kid out of the group and they'll just say they were going along with the rest and it wasn't their idea...

Supposedly there are social checks and balances within the Wiki system to help avoid this 'mob mentality' type situation. They don't work very well, though. Like many things on the internet that combine the ability to obfuscate your identity (it's not 'you', it's an account) and post anything you dang well please, it often brings out the worst in people's behavior.

I don't know this guy and haven't even looked at the article in question. I agree vandalism isn't good, but it sounds like this person ramped up their response as you guys ramped up your attitude against him. At some point earlier in this situation one of you should have been the better man and just deleted the info and let the pressure out of the issue.

Jerk or not, assaholic behavior on his part or not, it's just not cool to keep re-posting someone's private data online when they ask you not to. To hide behind the 'but it's content and you can't remove it without playing the game my way' excuse is really poor form, and speaks more to feeling that you've "won" than doing the right thing. It just makes the wiki-bully mentality spread all the more.

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

Could you do me a favor and remove my real name from the Wiki? I'd appreciate it.

[ashmcairo.livejournal.com]

True, but why here? It doesn't seem to be worth the hassle unless you want to save his name for the sake of encyclopedic integrity, but that opens up another can of worms where you document the real names of people who are deemed problematic in the fandom, but gladly remove the names of those who do no evil but want privacy. Don't problem children deserve the same right to privacy as well?

[giza.livejournal.com]

Just to clarify, I don't think he asked us not to post his real name, he just kept removing it, with no explanation. And since he came from a different IP every time, we could not leave a message on the IP's talk page because he would never see it. As far as I know, the first direct communication we got from him was the legal threat.


I'm not sure if I can agree with you on whether his real name is considered private data or not, but I'm open to moral/legal discussion on the issue if you're interested.

[sethb.livejournal.com]

If the sender is someplace where French law applies and can drive to PA, you should worry.

Make that if and only if.

If you want to be nasty, inform them that they are prohibited from modifying your wiki, and therefore any further changes they make violate laws against unauthorized access to federally protected computer systems. (That one is at least moderately true, unlike their whines.)

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

I think Giza's entire issue was that the guy did not ask. He jumped into the page and started wholescale bulldozing. No doubt you'd be annoyed if someone you didn't know started mass deleting data on webpages that you yourself were responsible for. There are right ways and wrong ways to get what you want and this wasn't the right way to get a name removed.

[bobguthrie.livejournal.com]

Canis real name was not removed on request, it seems, because of two reasons: Continuous (present/ongoing) threats against members in the furry community (like furry artist Megan Giles,) and threats (both verbal and physical in nature) to Wikifur editors and sysops while requesting such information be stricken from his page.

It had nothing to do about "how nicely" you ask that personal information be removed. Users can even have their entries completely locked out from the Wiki,... with exceptions, such as if the person may present an ongoing threat to other people in the fandom, and all and any information may be helpful to take any action to avoid such person.

In a nutshell,...

[giza.livejournal.com]

I was about to say "Sure!", but Spirou (http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/User:Spirou) must have seen your request, because he beat me to it. :-)

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

But I'm saying, if he apologized sincerly and then asked nicely, would they remove it, leaving only his aliases...

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

Danke!

[ilthuain.livejournal.com]

That, sir, is some Prime Time Furry.

High-larious!

[bobguthrie.livejournal.com]

The thing is, he doesn't have to "ask nicely" to anybody in theory to anybody in the Wiki. As per the bylaws of the Wiki, personal data is paramount to the point to be excluded completely from it,... He doesn't have to stoop down and ask/beg to have anything personal removed or deleted from any administrator on Wikifur,...

...Unless your actions are detrimental to other people's life, well-being, or income, as it seems to be the case here.

But, you are correct on your questioning. If he (sincerely) apologized to the people he has inconvenienced with his behavior, yes, it would be Wikifur's duty to respect his wish for privacy, but again, without having to ask in any demeaning manner (i.e. "Nicely,")...

[tgeller.livejournal.com]

Some of the legal opinions expressed here contradict my (admittedly flawed) knowledge of publishing law. For example: I believe a publisher *can* be held liable for contributor's statements, if the publisher has shown a previous pattern of editing (which implies control). So saying "It's a wiki, don't blame us!" wouldn't fly.

And the U.S. has plenty of legal precedent to protect one's name from appearing in a public place -- especially if its mere appearance in the context could be considered damaging. Tort, anyone?

I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, brush your teeth. And don't rely on furry community advice in matters of life or law. :)

[susandeer.livejournal.com]

"Nicely" need not equate to "kissing ass" @:) It could simply be akin to leaving out threats of lawsuit or bodily harm.

"Dude, this was resolved. Can you pull my RL name from this? Thanks."

[sleepingwolf.livejournal.com]

I'm not much for dogpiling, but I think the other replies to you miss something important:

Let's say I go delete some random person's real name off this wiki without commenting as to why. When they put it back, I repeat the change, and then start grabbing larger blocks of text.

How is this behavior obviously different from what happened above? If they let it lie, it would be saying "delete whatever you feel like!"