My understanding of the "expert" that her parents hired is that he made his diagnosis that she is "minimally conscious" merely by watching videotape of her.
It seems that he never actually performed a physical examination of her. I'd sure like to know who made that guy a doctor.
The court order stated that as per the judgement of the husband, no docter is allowed to examine her without his aproval. The docter who beleives she is not PVS was allowed to see all her records, everythign but physicaly examine her. this sit he same husband who had a nurse arested for tryign to give her water.
"The governor said Wednesday that a doctor who had seen videotapes of Ms. Schiavo and visited with her for 90 minutes, but had not performed a physical exam, had concluded that she might not be in a persistent vegetative state, as other doctors have testified to the courts." "Judge Greer did not rule on their request immediately, but he granted a request from Ms. Schiavo's husband to bar the state's Department of Children and Families from removing her from the hospice where she has gone six days without her feeding tube and from providing her with nutrition or hydration.
Mr. Felos said he had heard "credible" rumors that state officials planned to send doctors to the hospice to give Ms. Schiavo intravenous fluids. Judge Greer also directed state sheriffs to take whatever actions were necessary to enforce the order. "
" He said a new review by Dr. William P. Cheshire, a neurologist in Jacksonville, suggested that Ms. Schiavo had been misdiagnosed as being in a "persistent vegetative state," meaning she cannot think, emote or remember.
Dr. Cheshire, who visited Ms. Schiavo in her hospice room for an hour and a half on March 1 and reviewed videotapes of her made by her parents, said that instead she appeared to be minimally conscious.
"This new information raises serious concerns and warrants immediate action," Mr. Bush said. "If there's any uncertainty, we should err on the side of protecting her."
Dr. Cheshire is the director of a laboratory at the Mayo Clinic branch in Jacksonville that deals with unconscious reflexes like digestion, and the director of biotech ethics at the Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity"
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/politics/24cnd-schia.html?ex=1114318800&en=e6f5307387910f7a&ei=5087&excamp=terryschiavo And it looks like it least the big arrest was children not adults "Child Arrested Trying To Bring Water To Terri Schiavo
The Australian | March 24, 2005
POLICE today handcuffed and led away three children and seven adults who tried to take water into the hospice where brain-damaged Terri Schiavo is being cared for.
With mounting international attention on the Schiavo right-to-die battle, activists gathered outside the hospice after a federal appeals court became the latest to turn down attempts by Mrs Schiavo's parents to get a feeding tube lifeline reinstalled.
The tube was taken out on Saturday. The 41-year-old woman has been in what doctors call a persistent vegetative state for 15 years.
Her husband says she did not want to be kept alive artificially and should be allowed to die. Her parents say Mrs Schiavo's condition could improve with treatment.
The demonstrators, who were carrying cups of water, refused to move off the property of the Woodside hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida, and were led away one-by-one by police, handcuffed and put in a police van.
Some read messages for Mrs Schiavo before being handcuffed. Others knelt on the ground.
One 14-year-old girl and two brothers aged 12 and 10 were among the 10 people taken away by police.
"I am proud of them," said the boys' mother Geilen Keys from Texas. "They are very mature and they said 'we want to go and offer some water to Terri'."
Another woman was arrested for staging a similar protest yesterday. " http://www.infowars.com/articles/life/schiavo_fate_of_terri_rests_on_judge.htm nurses statementts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1368808/posts husbands chosen neurologist a keynote speaker for pro euthanisia groups http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43447
and the arrest warant for the judge and husband from one of the men arrested for trying to bring in food: " CITIZEN’S ARREST NOTICE I, James G. “Bo” Gritz, a private citizen, being an American by birth in Enid, Oklahoma, on 18 January 1939, and possessing personal knowledge (reasonable cause) that certain individuals and agencies in and around Pinellas Park, Florida have committed, or will soon commit, specific felony violation of U.S. and Florida State laws, do hereby issue and publish this Citizen’s Arrest Notice requesting government agencies responsible for enforcement, including the Pinellas County Sheriff, Florida Attorney General, State Police, FBI, district attorneys and local police departments arrest the identified person(s) for crimes already committed and restrain them from committing further violations identified in this document. The focus of this action is to secure the personal safety of Theresa “Terri” Marie Schindler-Schiavo, a natural-born U.S. Citizen currently being held in the Woodside Hospice (727-541-4199) at 6774 102nd Avenue N in Pinellas Park, FL 33782-2909 (Scott Kistler, Vice President of Operations, 727-586-4432). Terri is paralyzed and in need of care by the Woodside staff – specifically the provision of nourishment and hydration at meal times through a feeding tube. The specific threat is the wrongful withholding of nourishment from Terri Schiavo beginning at 1:00 p.m. local-time on 18 March 2005 with the specific purpose of her death through starvation and dehydration, as ordered by Circuit Judge George W. Greer (727-464-3933) in the Probate Division of the Circuit Court for Pinellas County, Florida at 2:50 p.m. on 25 February 2005; to be executed by Michael Schiavo (Marrie Ct, Clearwater, FL). This is a felony conspiracy to cause the wrongful death of an innocent person. The conspiracy will become a homicide if carried through to completion. With the exception of the feeding tube at meal time, Terri Schiavo is on no other form of life support-system. She is not in a comma – she opens and moves her eyes; she is aware, recognizes and reacts to people and other stimuli. She is paralyzed, but more than 17 physicians and medical specialists have signed affidavits believing her condition will improve with proper therapy. Nobel Prize nominee Dr. William Hammesfahr has examined Terri and states her injury is a type of stroke that he treats everyday with success. Terri’s parents, Robert and Mary Schindler are prepared to assume responsibility for continued care of their daughter. The American people, the U.S. Congress, Florida Legislature, Governor Jeb Bush, Florida Department of Children and Families, the Vatican, numerous public interest groups, and luminary Americans are making public their adamant interest sustaining Terri’s life.
Last half of warrant As an American, Terri Schindler-Schiavo is protected under both U.S. Constitutional Laws and Florida Statutes which have been over-ridden by Judge George Greer. The 8th Amendment forbids cruel and unusual punishment. Not even the most heinous criminals are starved to death! The 14th Amendment protects her human rights as an American. Florida Statute 744.3215 (Rights of Persons Determined Incapacitated) forbids depriving Terri of food and water, a felony. Florida Statute 765.404 requires the diagnosis of “persistent vegetative state” be determined as “permanent” prior to withdrawal of life prolonging means. Judge Greer has refused any further definitive tests (MRI) to ascertain Terri’s current status. Florida Statute 765.309 prevents mercy killing and assisted suicide. Florida Statute 765.404 calls for clear and convincing evidence of a ward’s intent concerning life and death medical decisions. Terri is a Catholic (suicide and assisted termination not an option); Judge Grer ruled-out pro-life testimony and accepted instead Michael Schivo’s self-serving hearsay that he had heard Terri refer to ceasing life-support on one occasion (violation of FL Statute 90.602). This Citizen’s Arrest Warrant becomes null and void upon transfer of guardianship for Terri Schindler-Schiavo to her mother and father, or the Florida Department of Children & Families, prior to 1:00 p.m. on 18 March 2005. As the plaintiff, I will physically be present in Pinellas Park at the Woodside Hospice. I am causing this complaint to be widely distributed so appropriate officials are made aware and may act to prevent this cruel death. As previously stated: The sole purpose of this document and resulting action(s) is to safeguard a helpless Terri Schindler-Schiavo. Any action that accomplishes this objective satisfies this Citizen’s Arrest Notice. Sworn to and Certified before a Notary Public on this date I am James G. “Bo” Gritz, a Private Person and U.S. Citizen, resident address: HC-37, Box 472, Sandy Valley, NV 89019."
Mr. Gritz has been involved in helping end many violations of citizens rights by both the courts and the other branches of goverment. He was arrested while protesting the tube removal after he and a group of others crossed police lines with food and water and attempted to enter the hospice in a symbolic act of protest.
Look for Operation Rescue online for details on the plans to continue risking arrest while trying to save terrys life.
This may have started out as a mediahype about a husband wanting to pull the plug on his 15 year vegetated wife, but it's now escalated into the most blatant powergrab by politicians over judges in recent history.
The courts and the politicians takes turns screwing each other over like this, but living in the era of the bush 2.0b administration, all subtlety is straight out the window as usual. They usually don't do this sort of massive violation of state courts over such a single individual and for such a narrow political group as well. The only ones they're trying to appease are the religious right-wingers and if you trust the polls, even they aren't all happy with it.
Meanwhile Tom DeLay is quite satisfied to have been known for something, anything, other than the suspicions of corruption that all his close friends were being investigated for.
The people on Terri's side now who are yelling the loudest for her cause are the same people who are against abortion and gays. Plus a teen abstinence advocate doctor who says AIDS is transmittable through sweat thrown in for good measure.
To me the Terri case doesn't even require my opinion. It's been through countless courts already, it's decided. What're the politicians gonna do? They're going to change court rule so that now the parents are the ones who decide when to pull the plug instead of the husband? What about that sanctified bond of matrimony that they're so fervently advocating? What happens when the next case of pulling the plug on a vegetable happens, but where the husband against all reason wants to keep his wife alive while her parents want to pull the plug?
Haven't they been reviewing this case in Florida courts for 5 years already? Don't you think they would have looked through all the evidence by now? Now they're just going to scrap all that work and start over in the federal court because someone screamed 'medical terrorism'.
Memos have been circulating about how the government really should get into this case because it'll look politically good for them. Bush 2.0b never fails to lower the bar of hypocricy. He even flew back especially just to sign the papers that he could easily have signed where he was already. 100,000 people dead in the Tsunami incident, 9/11 investigation with congress and military funerals sure as hell didn't get him out of his seat and going that quickly. Heck, not even 9/11 itself made him get off his chair and do something.
You have to be either unborn, brain dead or rich before the republicans as much as lift a finger to help you.
so a law allowing/requiring that people be able to apeal civil cases like this one to fedral courts is wrong? Is not the whole purpose of the fedral court system to serve as a court of appeals when all measures fail in lower courts?
And anyway, the judge in this case is not exactly a strait shooter anyway, and at this point is doing more of a "nobody can change it my mind is made up niener niener" than making real rulings based on the LAW and the CONSTITUTION of the state in wich he holds office.
Are you sure that's awareness and not just... I'm not sure of the word... instinctive behavour?
My understanding is that her brain was without oxygen for 5 minutes. That's long enough to cause damage/death of the cerebrum and cerebellum, which pretty much prevents one from having conscious thought. But the brain stem can survive, and that regulates more basic functions such as breathing and heart rate.
About the instinctive behavour, I'll bet that if you shined a flashlight into her eyes, the pupils would contract. That sort of reaction is involuntary and regulated by the brain stem. That doesn't necessarily mean she's conscious, though.
Of course, I'm not a doctor and could be talking out of my arse.
Nah. They're going to pump him full of adrenaline and wheel his corpse to the window, using animatronics for moving his hands when neccessary, but they're *not* going to let him die on Easter - at least not officially. :)
OTOH, I wonder if Cardinal Ratzinger's gonna be the next one. That'd be scary....
Despite his more humorous name, I am sure there will be TONS of pressure from US groups and religious factions to make him the next pope... but if that happens, the catholic fath will be totally frelled.
Maybe it'll create another split like with the Anglicans?
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(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 08:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 08:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 06:14 pm (UTC)FDH
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 08:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 08:45 pm (UTC)It seems that he never actually performed a physical examination of her. I'd sure like to know who made that guy a doctor.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 10:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 12:48 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 02:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 07:39 pm (UTC)"Judge Greer did not rule on their request immediately, but he granted a request from Ms. Schiavo's husband to bar the state's Department of Children and Families from removing her from the hospice where she has gone six days without her feeding tube and from providing her with nutrition or hydration.
Mr. Felos said he had heard "credible" rumors that state officials planned to send doctors to the hospice to give Ms. Schiavo intravenous fluids. Judge Greer also directed state sheriffs to take whatever actions were necessary to enforce the order. "
" He said a new review by Dr. William P. Cheshire, a neurologist in Jacksonville, suggested that Ms. Schiavo had been misdiagnosed as being in a "persistent vegetative state," meaning she cannot think, emote or remember.
Dr. Cheshire, who visited Ms. Schiavo in her hospice room for an hour and a half on March 1 and reviewed videotapes of her made by her parents, said that instead she appeared to be minimally conscious.
"This new information raises serious concerns and warrants immediate action," Mr. Bush said. "If there's any uncertainty, we should err on the side of protecting her."
Dr. Cheshire is the director of a laboratory at the Mayo Clinic branch in Jacksonville that deals with unconscious reflexes like digestion, and the director of biotech ethics at the Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity"
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/politics/24cnd-schia.html?ex=1114318800&en=e6f5307387910f7a&ei=5087&excamp=terryschiavo
And it looks like it least the big arrest was children not adults
"Child Arrested Trying To Bring Water To Terri Schiavo
The Australian | March 24, 2005
POLICE today handcuffed and led away three children and seven adults who tried to take water into the hospice where brain-damaged Terri Schiavo is being cared for.
With mounting international attention on the Schiavo right-to-die battle, activists gathered outside the hospice after a federal appeals court became the latest to turn down attempts by Mrs Schiavo's parents to get a feeding tube lifeline reinstalled.
The tube was taken out on Saturday. The 41-year-old woman has been in what doctors call a persistent vegetative state for 15 years.
Her husband says she did not want to be kept alive artificially and should be allowed to die. Her parents say Mrs Schiavo's condition could improve with treatment.
The demonstrators, who were carrying cups of water, refused to move off the property of the Woodside hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida, and were led away one-by-one by police, handcuffed and put in a police van.
Some read messages for Mrs Schiavo before being handcuffed. Others knelt on the ground.
One 14-year-old girl and two brothers aged 12 and 10 were among the 10 people taken away by police.
"I am proud of them," said the boys' mother Geilen Keys from Texas. "They are very mature and they said 'we want to go and offer some water to Terri'."
Another woman was arrested for staging a similar protest yesterday. "
http://www.infowars.com/articles/life/schiavo_fate_of_terri_rests_on_judge.htm
nurses statementts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1368808/posts
husbands chosen neurologist a keynote speaker for pro euthanisia groups
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43447
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 07:41 pm (UTC)" CITIZEN’S ARREST NOTICE
I, James G. “Bo” Gritz, a private citizen, being an American by birth in Enid, Oklahoma, on 18 January 1939, and possessing personal knowledge (reasonable cause) that certain individuals and agencies in and around Pinellas Park, Florida have committed, or will soon commit, specific felony violation of U.S. and Florida State laws, do hereby issue and publish this Citizen’s Arrest Notice requesting government agencies responsible for enforcement, including the Pinellas County Sheriff, Florida Attorney General, State Police, FBI, district attorneys and local police departments arrest the identified person(s) for crimes already committed and restrain them from committing further violations identified in this document.
The focus of this action is to secure the personal safety of Theresa “Terri” Marie Schindler-Schiavo, a natural-born U.S. Citizen currently being held in the Woodside Hospice (727-541-4199) at 6774 102nd Avenue N in Pinellas Park, FL 33782-2909 (Scott Kistler, Vice President of Operations, 727-586-4432). Terri is paralyzed and in need of care by the Woodside staff – specifically the provision of nourishment and hydration at meal times through a feeding tube.
The specific threat is the wrongful withholding of nourishment from Terri Schiavo beginning at 1:00 p.m. local-time on 18 March 2005 with the specific purpose of her death through starvation and dehydration, as ordered by Circuit Judge George W. Greer (727-464-3933) in the Probate Division of the Circuit Court for Pinellas County, Florida at 2:50 p.m. on 25 February 2005; to be executed by Michael Schiavo (Marrie Ct, Clearwater, FL). This is a felony conspiracy to cause the wrongful death of an innocent person. The conspiracy will become a homicide if carried through to completion.
With the exception of the feeding tube at meal time, Terri Schiavo is on no other form of life support-system. She is not in a comma – she opens and moves her eyes; she is aware, recognizes and reacts to people and other stimuli. She is paralyzed, but more than 17 physicians and medical specialists have signed affidavits believing her condition will improve with proper therapy. Nobel Prize nominee Dr. William Hammesfahr has examined Terri and states her injury is a type of stroke that he treats everyday with success. Terri’s parents, Robert and Mary Schindler are prepared to assume responsibility for continued care of their daughter. The American people, the U.S. Congress, Florida Legislature, Governor Jeb Bush, Florida Department of Children and Families, the Vatican, numerous public interest groups, and luminary Americans are making public their adamant interest sustaining Terri’s life.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 07:44 pm (UTC)As an American, Terri Schindler-Schiavo is protected under both U.S. Constitutional Laws and Florida Statutes which have been over-ridden by Judge George Greer. The 8th Amendment forbids cruel and unusual punishment. Not even the most heinous criminals are starved to death! The 14th Amendment protects her human rights as an American.
Florida Statute 744.3215 (Rights of Persons Determined Incapacitated) forbids depriving Terri of food and water, a felony.
Florida Statute 765.404 requires the diagnosis of “persistent vegetative state” be determined as “permanent” prior to withdrawal of life prolonging means. Judge Greer has refused any further definitive tests (MRI) to ascertain Terri’s current status.
Florida Statute 765.309 prevents mercy killing and assisted suicide.
Florida Statute 765.404 calls for clear and convincing evidence of a ward’s intent concerning life and death medical decisions. Terri is a Catholic (suicide and assisted termination not an option); Judge Grer ruled-out pro-life testimony and accepted instead Michael Schivo’s self-serving hearsay that he had heard Terri refer to ceasing life-support on one occasion (violation of FL Statute 90.602).
This Citizen’s Arrest Warrant becomes null and void upon transfer of guardianship for Terri Schindler-Schiavo to her mother and father, or the Florida Department of Children & Families, prior to 1:00 p.m. on 18 March 2005.
As the plaintiff, I will physically be present in Pinellas Park at the Woodside Hospice. I am causing this complaint to be widely distributed so appropriate officials are made aware and may act to prevent this cruel death. As previously stated: The sole purpose of this document and resulting action(s) is to safeguard a helpless Terri Schindler-Schiavo. Any action that accomplishes this objective satisfies this Citizen’s Arrest Notice.
Sworn to and Certified before a Notary Public on this date
I am James G. “Bo” Gritz, a Private Person and U.S. Citizen,
resident address: HC-37, Box 472, Sandy Valley, NV 89019."
Mr. Gritz has been involved in helping end many violations of citizens rights by both the courts and the other branches of goverment.
He was arrested while protesting the tube removal after he and a group of others crossed police lines with food and water and attempted to enter the hospice in a symbolic act of protest.
Look for Operation Rescue online for details on the plans to continue risking arrest while trying to save terrys life.
Oh PLEASE!
Date: 2005-03-26 11:54 pm (UTC)The courts and the politicians takes turns screwing each other over like this, but living in the era of the bush 2.0b administration, all subtlety is straight out the window as usual. They usually don't do this sort of massive violation of state courts over such a single individual and for such a narrow political group as well. The only ones they're trying to appease are the religious right-wingers and if you trust the polls, even they aren't all happy with it.
Meanwhile Tom DeLay is quite satisfied to have been known for something, anything, other than the suspicions of corruption that all his close friends were being investigated for.
The people on Terri's side now who are yelling the loudest for her cause are the same people who are against abortion and gays. Plus a teen abstinence advocate doctor who says AIDS is transmittable through sweat thrown in for good measure.
To me the Terri case doesn't even require my opinion. It's been through countless courts already, it's decided. What're the politicians gonna do? They're going to change court rule so that now the parents are the ones who decide when to pull the plug instead of the husband? What about that sanctified bond of matrimony that they're so fervently advocating?
What happens when the next case of pulling the plug on a vegetable happens, but where the husband against all reason wants to keep his wife alive while her parents want to pull the plug?
Haven't they been reviewing this case in Florida courts for 5 years already? Don't you think they would have looked through all the evidence by now? Now they're just going to scrap all that work and start over in the federal court because someone screamed 'medical terrorism'.
Memos have been circulating about how the government really should get into this case because it'll look politically good for them. Bush 2.0b never fails to lower the bar of hypocricy. He even flew back especially just to sign the papers that he could easily have signed where he was already. 100,000 people dead in the Tsunami incident, 9/11 investigation with congress and military funerals sure as hell didn't get him out of his seat and going that quickly. Heck, not even 9/11 itself made him get off his chair and do something.
You have to be either unborn, brain dead or rich before the republicans as much as lift a finger to help you.
Re: Oh PLEASE!
Date: 2005-03-27 12:31 pm (UTC)And anyway, the judge in this case is not exactly a strait shooter anyway, and at this point is doing more of a "nobody can change it my mind is made up niener niener" than making real rulings based on the LAW and the CONSTITUTION of the state in wich he holds office.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 06:35 pm (UTC)My understanding is that her brain was without oxygen for 5 minutes. That's long enough to cause damage/death of the cerebrum and cerebellum, which pretty much prevents one from having conscious thought. But the brain stem can survive, and that regulates more basic functions such as breathing and heart rate.
About the instinctive behavour, I'll bet that if you shined a flashlight into her eyes, the pupils would contract. That sort of reaction is involuntary and regulated by the brain stem. That doesn't necessarily mean she's conscious, though.
Of course, I'm not a doctor and could be talking out of my arse.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-27 12:38 am (UTC)As you can see, i dont follow the daily news at all.
thanks
FDH
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 06:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-25 10:41 pm (UTC)OTOH, I wonder if Cardinal Ratzinger's gonna be the next one. That'd be scary....
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 06:36 pm (UTC)Maybe it'll create another split like with the Anglicans?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 12:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-26 03:58 am (UTC)Remember, you read it here first.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-27 12:03 am (UTC)Business as usual, really. ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-03-27 12:09 am (UTC)You know, if those two died on Easter and Bill Gates got run over by a car... that would be like the Unholy Trinity!
You're on!
Date: 2005-03-26 04:24 am (UTC)