SomethingAwful forums contribute to Murder/Suicide

[giza]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1711278

Posted by cargoweasel, reposted here since some folks who this LJ don't read his.

Apparently, SA Forum users gave ammunition-related advice to a guy who later killed others, then himself. I'm not sure exactly how "responsible" SA is here, but it'll be interesting to see their reactions, and how this whole thing plays out.

Comments/discussion welcome, even from SA goons who read this LJ. (Just keep it civil)

Comments

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

That's the SA we all know and loathe.

"It's only the internet - it's not real!"

[antimon.livejournal.com]

there are all sorts of guides for bullit calibers etc. I mean if SA is accountable so is the Military, History, and Discovery channels

[giza.livejournal.com]

I don't know the details, but my experience with technical references is that they are just that: technical. They are not easily understood by laypeople.

A point to ponder would be if those resources were in fact too technical for the guy to understand, and that's why he asked other people. Of course, we'll never know now. :-/

[antimon.livejournal.com]

yeah but the documentaries and such on the channels i listed are lay people friendly.

what if it wasn't SA but an NRA forum woudl that make a differnce? I wonder, as that is somthing specific to the associations purpose

[khakiwolf.livejournal.com]

Simple: It would be far easier to sue the NRA.

[lionman.livejournal.com]

I'm curious if someone will look at this as 'aiding' in the murder, as if they had helped him plan it, knowingly or not. If someone you know, asks you for advice on something, you give it to them, and they use it in a deadly manner, are you not lending aid to them to commit a crime?

Admittedly, I could be totally off base here, but ..wasn't this guy asking how to be more lethal?

[rigelkitty.livejournal.com]

SA's contribution was akin to how a victim lashes out after being bullied. They were not directly responsible, but it's very likely they contributed to the guy's mental state by harassing and deriding him.

They didn't tell him to kill anyone, but they pushed him. They are cruel people and this an end result of cruelty.

[antimon.livejournal.com]

well is it they messed with him and drove him to kill, or is it he asked for help in killign or doing more damage and adv...cus thats a pretty big differnce of involvment

[rigelkitty.livejournal.com]

I was only talking about the former. If you want to bring up the latter, he declared an intent to use firearms against people and they gave him advice on how to do so with lethal force.

I'd hazard they're guilty of both.

[drleo.livejournal.com]

I guess it depends on how it was provided. If the SA goons knew he was likely to commit a crime, or pushed him into it, then maybe. But in general, providing information like that when requested shouldn't make you culpable in how it's later used.

[kellic.livejournal.com]

I always knew SA contributed something positive to the world at large..............And funny that I'm still searching for what THAT might be. Maybe a central gathering place for dipshits so someday when their BS gets too much we can nuke them from orbit...its the only way to be sure.

[drakenhart.livejournal.com]

Hole-ly Cow! o.O

Okay bad joke.., in very bad taste I know.

But OMFG.., I skimmed the threads a bit.. but has the police said anythign at all about this?

[just-the-ash.livejournal.com]

Um, whoa.

I don't have time right now to read *all* of the related threads to their conclusions, but it strikes me: if I asked an ammo-related question in nanowrimo, the default assumption would be that I was asking for purely fictional purposes, and so I would get advice, hints, tips, pointers, and links -- all in the name of making my novel more realistic. But if I later went out and shot somebody for, say, comma misuse, would we be jumping all over the NaNoWriMo forums? Or is there a specific way they derided or mocked the guy, other than telling him to sod off and not come back?

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Nanowrimo doesn't tell everyone that they can do anything they want with impunity because "It's the Internet! It isn't real!" SA, on the otherhand, seems to have made that their mantra. And now, the SA folks are shocked (shocked!) because one of their little games has had fatal consequences.

And yeah, if the Nanowrimo people told a deranged kid where to buy buckshot near his home, they'd be under a microscope, too.

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

My Inner Buddha hopes that some of these people learn from this mistake and go on to do good with their lives and stop being the bullies they themselves were teased by as gradeschoolers.

My Inner Denis Leary hopes that the whole lot of them idiots gets dragged by a car, face to the pavement. That and Lotax gets charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors.... then gets dragged by Dennis Leary in a car.

These are the forces many of us have to deal with, though my Inner Buddha is strong.

[gen-talon.livejournal.com]

I am curious to see how this plays out...
Knowing Caliofornia and the way things work..people are going to be pointing fingers...people want someone to blame.
Givin Something Awfuls reputation I can see the blame going to them..odd really.

[khakiwolf.livejournal.com]

I'd love to see some legal action come against the people involved, and see the SA goons try their "LOL @ U!" when the cops come to arrest them.

I didn't read the forum, and I'm not going to (for obvious reasons), but it sounds like the usual SA bullshit. Just this weekend I found out a friend of mine was a "goon" and he was actually defending their actions as "just harmful fun, and people take them WAY too seriously". Yeah, like that would stand up in court if they DID get arrested.

I agree with what the person above said: "Come on, it's just the internet!" Until it affects something in real life.

What a bunch of real winners.

[giza.livejournal.com]

My feelings on their culpability is that they probably didn't cross any criminal lines, at least from what I saw. From a civil standpoint though, well, lawsuits can be filed for just about any reason in this country, so I think there is a non-zero chance that a victim's family might try bringing legal action against SA. Only time will tell.

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

I'd prefer that they did not.... not publically at least. The last thing they need is more publicity. They've been giving furry tons of publicity so far its actually helped the fandom.

[atpaw.livejournal.com]

Deport them to Australia?

One of our several "Ahahahah! Only in Australia!" internet/communications laws basically says that if you drive someone to suicide and/or assist them to suicide, you can be charged with being at least partly responsible for it happening.

[khakiwolf.livejournal.com]

This happened in the States once I believe. A girl was driven to suicide by several girls at school who would make fun of her constantly on a daily basis. She wrote a suicide note and named the reason why she was killing herself.

The girls were arrested on charges of manslaughter.

[khakiwolf.livejournal.com]

Well how do you bring legal action against a group like that? Something Awful is just the website. You'd want to bring action against the individuals involved, no?

[giza.livejournal.com]

If you want to go after specific posters, generally what you do is file a lawsuit against one or more "John Does". Then you issue a subpoena to SA for the account records of the posters that you want information for. Once you get that information, it's amended to the complaint.

Conceivably, the company that owns SA (or Lowtax, if it is a sole proprietorship) could be sued too, for having a responsibility in "creating an environment where this happens". The success of such a suit depends on a lot of things, though.

[khakiwolf.livejournal.com]

I agree. Lowtax certainly doesn't do anything to STOP the abuse/attacks. If anything, he defends the actions of the goons he has in his little clique.

And the only problem with getting records is if they signed up using names like "John Doe", etc, and/or giving false addresses if requested. *shrugs*

[giza.livejournal.com]

> I agree. Lowtax certainly doesn't do anything to STOP the abuse/attacks. If
> anything, he defends the actions of the goons he has in his little clique.

Not necessarily. Inaction isn't necessarily illegal unless say, there's reasonable cause that Lowtax actually knew something illegal was taking place. And I would bet against that.

> And the only problem with getting records is if they signed up using names
> like "John Doe", etc, and/or giving false addresses if requested. *shrugs*

One only needs to follow the money. A valid credit card is required to sign up. That, and I imagine that IP addresses are logged, so it wouldn't be too hard to track where a poster came from, especially if they had a consistent history of posting to the forums under the same /24, for example.