"Intelligent Design" == Thinly-veiled religion

[giza]

From http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/10/religion.robertson.reut/index.html:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Conservative Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson told citizens of a Pennsylvania town that they had rejected God by voting their school board out of office for supporting "intelligent design" and warned them Thursday not to be surprised if disaster struck.

Just in case anyone had doubts that Intelligent Design wasn't "really" a case of relgious people trying to force their religion into public schools.

Why is it that the Christians here in America feel the need to push their superstitious beliefs relgion down everybody's throats? I never hear stories about Jews, Muslims, or Hindus (all 600 million of them!) pulling stunts like this. And the Buddhists pretty much leave everyone alone. [Edit: Nevermind. Thanks for the heads up, pawslut. Most religions seem to have their share of violence. Bummer.]

In other news, today is Veteran's Day. CNN has an article about the surviving vets slowly dying off and fading into history. Out of 2 million men who served during World War 1, the Veterans Department estimates that 30 to 50 remain.

[Edit: Some folks have pointed out that yes, they are relgious, but they'd rather I not lump them in with Mr. Robertson. I apologize if I jumped to any conclusions.]

Comments

[nius.livejournal.com]

I never hear stories about Jews, Muslims, or Hindus (all 600 million of them!) pulling stunts like this.

That's because Jews, Muslims, and Hindus control entire nations, with violent force. And so do Christians. We all suck.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Can you please link me? I don't hear about this sort of stuff! (Maybe I need to read Al Jazeera more...)

[camstone.livejournal.com]

Why is it that the Jesus Freaks Christians here in America feel the need to push their superstitious beliefs relgion down everybody's throats?

Not every Christian does. I wish you peace.

[giza.livejournal.com]

It'd be SO nice to read news articles about some of those Christians once in awhile. :-/

(I spent most of my childhood as a Roman Catholic, BTW. The priests at my old church were pretty cool, and so were the people. It's just so hard to remember things like that when there's people like Pat Robertson shooting off their mouths on a near daily basis.)

[just-the-ash.livejournal.com]

Sadly, "Jimmy Carter builds another Habitat for Humanity house" or "Church group goes to NOLA to help Katrina victims" aren't considered juicy headlines. Pat, because he is "a raving, unconfined nut" (as the FBI once called Paul Krassner in a memo), makes news.

[camstone.livejournal.com]

Not everyone looks for media attention like that. Nor should they. Many can get a lot more done without it.

Not everyone wants to be "the media's whore."

[silver-huskey.livejournal.com]

I believe the short answer would be because Christianity is a majority religion here. With about 70% of the population claiming the religion, that leads to significant clout. I'd say in other countries the same would happen for majority religions there. Unlike other countries issues over religion have been rather peaceful here, how long that will remain has yet to be seen.

And there is no such thing as a single-mold Christian in this country. Ie, it's not true that if you've seen one Christian you've seen them all. (I know I maybe a Christian but I certainly don't fit into that "white, Evangelical" mold, in race or denomination.) I personally have more important things to worry about than issues of Evolution or Intelligent Design. As being Christian is not something that can be taught in schools, but most ultimately be accepted by the individual when they are old enough to make that choice. Notice I said is a choice and not something that can be forced down a person's throat. So yes, while I would be a "Jesus Freak," I do not believe in forcing others to believe in what I believe. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't treat or view us all as bigots of some sort.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Duly noted, and thanks for the reality check. I ammended my post accordingly.

[silver-huskey.livejournal.com]

Thanks Giza. ^^

And on that note Robertson does have some issues. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the type who had a few skeletons in his closet. -_-;

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

Oh he does... taking money from his ministry that was supposed to go towards starving people in africa and using it to buy planes to move equipment to one of his diamond mine business ventures out that way.

Thats just one I can recall offhand.

[silver-huskey.livejournal.com]

Not surprised to hear it, but still, ugh!

[kellic.livejournal.com]

Hey. I'm a Christian and I don't pull this crap. :x)

[giza.livejournal.com]

My post has been ammended accordingly.

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

This is so priceless... Pat Robertson going full out whacko. We used to have people like this locked up and treated with meds...

Now I might be thinking a little paranoid, but it seems like the entire right wing group is like this, using the same tactics.

Maybe if a good natured plea was made to his flock to have him seek help in the nature of a petition? It might at least make some of them wake up.

[giza.livejournal.com]

It'd be amewsing if the town considered his remarks as a threat and contacted law enforcement on the matter. :-)

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

Aren't certian types of "hate speech" and "Inciting people to violence" outlawed?

I just find it funny how people like banner go on constantly about how islamic clerics talk about violence and all that... we have our own too.

[puctiger.livejournal.com]

Heya, Giza. While I agree that the Evangelical dominance in politics is frustrating, I just wanted to comment about what you said about other religions not doing the same. The only religion which has not, to my knowledge, started wars or acted with barbarism is Jainism. Jains believe in extreme Ahimsa -- nonviolence. They'll go so far as to not even step on a bug (which means I'm safe around them).

You asked for some proof of other religions creating violence and doing things so fundamental and exteme as to compare to Christianity in this country. So here are concrete and researchable examples.

Violence by Buddhists: Thailand, which is a country predominantly populated by Theravada Buddhists, have been waging an ongoing campaign of violence in the southern regions near their border with Malaysia. Their main target are muslims, who they see as a threat to their Buddhist-dominated politics.

Nepal is a center of Maoist separatist and Buddhist violence. There's an ongoing civil war, of sorts, between the various people there, including violence by the (decreasing) Buddhist population.

Violence by Muslims: Sudan and Saudi Arabia are governments with ancient laws that are based on the koran. This includes their method of punishment (which are human rights violations). Things such as stonings, slicing off hands for stealing, and other such methods of dealing with the criminals are a direct reflection of extremism.

Violence by Jews: Case and point is Israel. Israel regularly conducts illegal bulldozing campaigns against muslim houses in order to build settlements. While this practice has decreased, they have not decreased the amount of air strikes against the muslim population, which almost always hit civilian targets (including civilian police forces, which have been direct targets).

Violence by Hindus: The 1947 gaining of independence from Britain spawned a massive civil war between Hindus and Muslims in 1948. Tens of thousands of muslims died in race/religious violence when muslims attempted to flea India for Pakistan and East Pakistan. The primarily hindu population of India still discriminates harshly against muslims, and regularly sanctions or commits violence against muslims in the province of contested Kashmire.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Holy crap.

Thanks for the heads up. o.O I just edited my entry accordingly (for the second time!).

[wesha.livejournal.com]

More nice reading on modern holy and unholy wars: War Nerd (also limited set of articles available here -- war_nerd)

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

Every religion has its issues.

Yeah, during India's and Pakistan's independance, forces from brittian fanned the flames of anger to get back at the country they one held control of. Poor Ghandi.


Though I've always identified Buddhism as a far more pacifist religion than most. Having been nearly wiped out by Muslims ages ago and only erupting in scattered violence of today? Not half bad. Though I think it might be an issue with a mostly follower based violence. Still more research to do.

[just-the-ash.livejournal.com]

I also think a lot of that is cultural. It's true that Zen Buddhist priests endorsed Japan's activities in WWII, but the priestly hierarchy at the time was both quite political and quite brainwashed. You'd have trouble finding a Zen priest today who would feel the same way.

So yeah -- small area, people are together, tension and violence. I'm a Buddhist, but I recognize that my religion doesn't automagically render me immune to nastiness, or wiser-than-thou.

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to grok more about buddhism myself. I find my own beliefs to groove very nicely so far.

Following a Religion doesn't make anyone a saint (which is why I have so much beef with people who praise our current political officials for just that characteristic). Its what you do that is of any difference. How you change the world around you and interact with others is far more important.

I've rather enjoyed reading books by the Dahlai Lama so far, The practices he's preached in his "Buddhsim for the common man" type books are ones I've held myself or that really sync with my own beliefs.

[just-the-ash.livejournal.com]

You might also really like Stephen Batchelor's Buddhism Without Beliefs. It raised a bit of controversy in Buddhist circles when originally published, but I find it quite sensible, really.

Although he is a devout Baptist, I would actually consider Jimmy Carter a bodhisattva, someone who is totally actualizing his Buddha-nature. I would put the late, great Mr. Rogers (an ordained Presbyterian minister) on that list as well, along with primatologist Jane Goodall -- in other words, there are some really great people in the world who may not be Buddhist, but are buddhas nonetheless.

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

Hehehe... I keep hearing it from my uncle about all these "Christian" ideals and ethics... Its better to focus on the acts themselves for what they are. We can label them as "Buddhist" or "Christian" or what not, but they are good in of themselves.

As people we take what we like from the teachings we observe. We view the people on TV praising good works, take up some of the good habbits we hear about.. etc. Are they really belonging to "Buddhisim", or "Christianity" or Some other religion? No, the act itself may be well meaning to outline that the philosophy or religion holds that ideal in high regard, but there is a bit of Hubris in it as well to say its exclusive or that it originated there.

Can one say that the idea "To be nice to people" originated with a religion?

Though getting back to what you said, I see many people following the same styles of teachings as they are very similar, and I don't think you're claiming them to be exclusively buddhist in any way. Its very nice to see these traits so widespread.

[wesha.livejournal.com]

> Conservative Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson told citizens of a Pennsylvania town that they had rejected God

Hmm... I wonder who enlisted mr. Pat Robertson as a Representative of God on this humble planet? How does he know God thinks people rejected Him? Did he receive a message in burning letters in the sky, or carved on a stone plaque? (How does he know God cares at all, anyways?)

[just-the-ash.livejournal.com]

Schizophrenia?

[furahi.livejournal.com]

Well, the vatican has spoken in favor of Evolution (and necesarily against Intelligent Design), so not even all Christians feel that...