SEPTA, and the "war on terror"

[giza]

So, I took this picture at Market East Station in Philly tonight:



I was going to make some snide remarks about how IKEA is really just a front for Furniture Porn, but then something interesting happened at the station.

A "service manager" approached me, and wanted to know what I was taking pictures of. So I told him. Rather than go back to his desk and look at some hot chair-on-chair action, he proceeded to tell me how I am not allowed to take pictures of the trains or the engineers. (Apparently conductors are fair game, though. Sucks to be them!)

This is just abusurd.

Searching for "septa trains" on Google Images gives 153 matches, most of them rather high resolution, too. If I were a terrorist, would I really have have to spend the time to take pictures when there are so many readily available? Do they really think I'm going to crash a train into a building? Newsflash: trains move in two directions and two directions only. Forward and reverse. They do not fly! These trains are also powered by electricity, cutting the electricity will not (and has not in the past) disrupt service for residential and business customers.

The more I think about the "war on terror", the more I think it is a bunch of crap. It seems to me that it is being used as a justification for "those in charge", be they Republican, Democrat, Federal, State, or Local governments, or even some second shift Service Manager at Market East Station in Philadelphia to go on an ego trip and try to tell others what to do.

You know what the best part is? I've taken pictures in that station before. And nobody said anything to me. In fact, the picture that I just linked to was taken just above Track 4, Section B. There is a straight line of sight from the customer service desk just 50 feet away! Then there's this picture too. Taken from the same location as the previous picture. Even with a date and time right in the picture. I wonder where the Service Manager was then!

I've also taken pictures in 30th Street Station. And no one seemed to care.

So why the inconsistency here? Were the security people not paying attention to their cameras the last times I took pictures? Was this Service Manager just on an ego trip trying to act all tough so he could impress his superiors? You tell me.

I think the original point I was trying to make was this: question authority, but don't expect it to know either. If you are told to not do something that is not an obvious danger or infringing on anyone's rights (or a lawful order from a police officer), you should politely ask why it is not allowed. What is the security risk? Who or what is being put in jeopardy?

I wish I had the balls to ask that to the service manager earlier tonight. Sadly, the first thing that jumped into my mind was fear of being arrested if I showed anything less than 100% compliance. Well, I can still follow up with an email to SEPTA, and that should be fun too.

Feel free to discuss and/or criticise me in the comments.

In closing:

Comments

[triggur.livejournal.com]

damn right. shit like this is why the aclu exists.

[dragonof31102.livejournal.com]

Ah Septa................I hate it really. Can't wait til I get my car back. I only want to take Septa to 11th street station and back to 69th street Terminal. I kind of miss that right now, but then again I don't miss the smell.

[tinbender.livejournal.com]

Trains magazine is full of stories like yours. Usually it winds up being some jackass trying to show his muscle.

I believe it was Metra in Chicago that at one point made it illegal to take pictures like that from the platform, but if you moved off the platform you could take any pictures you liked, often with pretty much the same views. That policy didn't last long and just goes to show what kind of idiots are fighting this alleged war on terrorism. I think it's more of a war on human rights or a war on intelligent thought more than anything.

Good luck

[giza.livejournal.com]

> Usually it winds up being some jackass trying to show his muscle.

Why does this not surprise me?

Thanks for the heads up, that's one more reason for me to contact SEPTA about that.

[rustitobuck.livejournal.com]

Currently, Metra allows photography, but the lines that are operated by UP for Metra are restricted by UP.

Similarly, the CTA generally allows private photographers to take pictures for noncommercial purposes. Actually, their policy, I think is clear and reasonable: Don't photograph private stuff (like the inside of control towers), don't block passengers' movements, don't blind the operators with flash, and don't fall off anything.

[duncandahusky.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, the CTA's policy is enforced in a most uneven manner (see the comments in that link). As Tinbender says, so much of the time it just comes down to some idiot wanting to puff up their own sense of importance.

[omnibahumut.livejournal.com]

I think those sorts of rules are originally put in place by some copywrite lawyer. You can't take (with intent to distribute?) pictures in most places of business, and I think the excuse is usually the protection of their intellectual property, and not necessarily that of terror.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Is there a copyright on the image that I took a picture of? If so, why is that okay? And what sort of copyright do they have on their engineers? o.O

(I don't expect you to know the answers to those questions, I'm just sayin'.)

[omnibahumut.livejournal.com]

Well as far as taking pictures of Engineers go, thats probably a privacy and security thing. I'm sure if you asked an engineer if you could take his photo and gave a good reason for it, he'd let you. But I certainly wouldn't want strangers taking pictures of me at work, especially if I were dealing with strangers every day.

The poster you took a picture of IS copyrighted, though I can't see why it would be illegal to take a picture of and/or distribute that picture when its an advertisment posted in a public place.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Okay, let's assume for the moment that I can't take pictures of engineers for the reasons you cited.

What about the conductors? That's the really weird part.

[omnibahumut.livejournal.com]

Maybe he forgot to mention the Conductors *shrug*

[triggur.livejournal.com]

Copyright has nothing to do with officials trying to stop people taking pictures of trains all over the country. Go ask a train buff how many times they've been harassed for taking train pics, and you'll find that (C) has nothing to do with it.

[firedhusky.livejournal.com]

People don`t realize that terrorist already won.

If a terrorist wanted to inflict terror in the US population, i ll say that they already did a damn good job.

So by definition, they acomplished their mission.

We should realize that they won. And that all the changes and new restrictions (stupidity)that we went thru this past years are not going away neither geting any better.

some magic liquid made Lincoln`s monument close... lets fence everything and let no one get close to it ! fast !
wait... lets build a fence against the mexican terrorists !
NO ! the entire country. and lets cavity search anything that uses a turbant !

blah. the world changes fast, we will have to get used to it fast too.

:)

[moonfires.livejournal.com]

I get to see this monthly as I drive into Manhattan: http://www.cartoonbarry.com/2006/08/no_taking_pictures_on_george_w.html

Apparently, these signs have popped up at all PA facilities: http://offtheshelf.nowis.com/gallery/index.cfm?WhichSet=9

[giza.livejournal.com]

Oh, that is an awesome idea. I like it!

[alexismckee.livejournal.com]

Somehow the phrase "Cameras of mass destruction" comes to mind... I don't know why... hmmmm

[balinares.livejournal.com]

> Sadly, the first thing that jumped into my mind was fear of being
> arrested if I showed anything less than 100% compliance.

And there you have the exact reason why they're doing it in the first place... and why it's going to work. :/

[simbab.livejournal.com]

Something similar happened to me years ago...back when I was still using a 25-year-old film SLR...but I digress.

I was in a photography class I believe, and I was working on an assignment. I was at one of those outlet malls with the folks...this one was at Jeffersonville, Ohio (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Jeffersonville,+Ohio&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1&iwloc=addr), but these things are all over place in rural towns. I took a few pictures before being approached by someone...security guard, manager...don't remember. This was before 9/11 IIRC, but basically he told me to can the camera. I wrote a letter to the company (http://www.primeoutlets.com/) but they basically responded by politely telling me to stuff it.

Stuff like this is disturbing to me...it is as if there is something to hide. Anyway, IMHO the "War on Terror" (1984, anyone?) is just the latest excuse for stuff like this. It was going on loong before da-masses were aware of Osama bin Laden on any large scale.

[woelfisch.livejournal.com]

Usually I keep out of political discussions on LJ, but I can't help myself noticing that the US lately develops some similarities to the German Kaiserreich a hundred years ago. Carl Zuckmayer's play Der Hauptmann von Köpenick about con artist Wilhelm Voigt is a brilliant satire about German bureaucracy and the exaggerated respect for apparent or real authorities at that time.

If you can read German or are able to get an English translation of the play (unfortunately, I don't find any on Amazon): read it. :-)

[giza.livejournal.com]

I like the basic idea, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to do it with the WTC.

While I didn't personally know anyone who died that day, many do, and it might bring back some unpleasant memories.

My 3 cents. (adjusted for inflation)

[giza.livejournal.com]

I look forward to seeing the completed animation. :-)

[verybigjen.livejournal.com]

I think there is a group on flickr for photos you were accosted over... it's happening more and more.