Cradle of Liberty Boy Scout Council == Assholes

[giza]

The backstory:

City of Philadelphia: "Uh, you know that office space we're letting you have for free?"

Boy Scouts: "Yeah?"

City of Philadelphia: Well, we got this little problem with you discriminating against gays. It's discriminatory, and our policies prevent us from letting you have this office space for free.

Boy Scouts: It's our organization, and we'll run it how we like.

City of Philadelphia: Look, if you want to discriminate against gays, that's your business, but we're going to have to ask that you pay us fair market value starting on June 1st, or vacate the building. Continuing to let you occupy that building free of rent would violate our city's policies.

Boy Scouts: Fuck you.

City of Philadelphia: Fine, just get out.

Boy Scouts: We're not going anywhere. BTW, we're suing you now, so that we can stay here and continue to discriminate against gays.

So, yeah... I wish I could say that this kind of behavior is a first from the Boy Scouts, but they have a long standing policy of being horribly bigoted and intolerant when it comes to gays, atheists, and pretty much anyone else who doesn't fit into their narrow view of the way things should be.

I remember back in the 90s when I used to read Scouting Magazine, I would see these awful editorials going on and on (and on...) about the "gay agenda", and how those eeeeevil gays and atheists were trying to "take over" Scouting and force their values on everyone else. I was years away from thinking of myself as "gay" back then, but still those editorials left a really bad taste in my mouth.

The funny thing is that the local troops that I dealt with when I was in scouting (I'm an Eagle Scout) really didn't care one way or another about sexual orientation or religious preferences. When we were on camping trips and went to religious services, the guys who didn't go to church were merely dragged along to whatever service the leaders felt like taking them to. Nobody cared. A childhood friend of mine told me a few years back that his troop was the same way, but with gays. There were several gays in his troop, and the leaders didn't care.

It's such a shame, that while Boy Scouting is a great program for the boys, its executives are completely out of touch, and rotten to the core.

Comments

[thesmileetiger.livejournal.com]

BSA is a seriously messed up organization. This is yet another case were Canada manages to have basically the same group minus the BS http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/scoutscanada-gay.html

[mapdark.livejournal.com]

I don't get that!

Heck ! Here that kind of discrimination from a social club would be unnacceptable (especially since it's funded federally) and ILLEGAL .

All the scout organisation people are showing right now is that they are a bunch of unreasonable pig-headed chauvinists to the population.

I mean , losing a building because you're so onset to hate gay people .. that's sad .. and creepy!

[giza.livejournal.com]

Oh, that reminds me!

Back in the 1990s, there were some cases where companies that were donating to the BSA became upset about the whole gay discrimination thing. They asked the BSA to knock it off, the BSA refused, so the companies pulled (or threatened to pull) their donations. The BSA's response? You guessed it: they started screaming about the Gay Agenda and how these companies were simply awful for trying to force their views on the Boy Scouts.

It's like the inmates are running the asylum.

(Then there's the stories of politics my father used to tell me when he was a District Commissioner...)

[smack-jackal.livejournal.com]

There have been a few fights like this in California, too. The most recently one that I remember was when Berkeley revoked the BSA's free lease on boat slips in the marina because of their discriminatory practices.

Awesome, no? What a completely outmoded organization. Much to the displeasure of my parents I almost always refer to the BSA as The Brownshirts.

[thraxarious.livejournal.com]

I have to say I am glad more companies, cities and organizations are taking the stand to say No to the BSA regarding their crazy fundie agenda. I am personally glad that Philadelphia has come to this as well.

They can't stand to be told they can't have their cake and eat it too, just like those people of privilege who think they're not of privilege, they have to learn that there are others who don't get or aren't entitled to such a sweet deal. Any attempt to bring these people back to planet earth is seen as the "Gay Agenda" or "Liberal Agenda". Its just more whining.

I do hope that the BSA is wrestled out of the greedy crazy hands of a select few in the Mormon church and returned to more honorable hands. There are some good things about scouts, and its the fault of those up top who corrupted it.

[eddiddiums.livejournal.com]

So the BSA is suing for the right to have rent free office space on city land? Oh ya, thats gonna go far.

Maybe they should seek out office space from some other right-wing, backwards organization instead of trying to stick around where they are not wanted.

[zealianbadass.livejournal.com]

Jubelier says the Cradle of Liberty Council has never discriminated, but that it cannot renounce the national organization's policies without sacrificing the local group's future.

Except that, you know, they could keep their meeting space.

Wonder if there's a Gay Eagle Scout organization. Might be worth looking into, or even putting together.

[zeeth_kyrah]

If you find one and it's friendly to straight supporters, I'll sign my name to it.

[alsaihn.livejournal.com]

And here I used to fantasize about being in the Boy Scouts... all options open for girls at the time (and place) were either wholly religious or waaaaay too girly.

[murakozi.livejournal.com]

In the troop I was in, things were pretty much the same as you and your friend described. Heck, the scoutmaster's son was gay and in a relationship with another guy in the troop. This was in the 70's and while it was pretty much known by everyone that the pair was gay, nobody really cared.

Yeah, there were little jokes 'n comments now and then about them, but that was all. In hindsight, the acceptance was kind of surprising considering the guys that were in the troop. It was almost like a scouting version of the Dirty Dozen. Heck, I learned how to rake a lock to open it from one of the guys in my patrol.

The BSA nowadays seems to try to take the stance of being a victim whenever some company or organization calls them on their policies.

[unkbar.livejournal.com]

I followed the link and read the actual complaint. A couple of the claims may have merit, if they are true. One, equal protection, says that the city has similar sweetheart deals with other organizations who discriminate in some way or another, but the city is not trying to evict anybody but the BSA. Another is that over the years, the BSA built and paid for the building in question, even though it was built on city land. If they're evicted, they want compensation for the value of the building. The third alleges that the city's offer to charge rent is actually punishment because the rent they're asking is (so they claim) twice the prevailing price per square foot for prime office space.

Like most things, that this particular action by the city isn't entirely black and white. Depending on the judge and the jury (they're demanding a jury trial), the lawsuit may have some legs.

By the way, I agree entirely that the discrimination policies of the BSA are reprehensible. Nonetheless, we live in a country where even scoundrels are entitled to due process.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Huh, that's interesting. They may be entitled to compensation for #2... and it would sure be nice if their PR people had brought that to peoples' attention, it might have gotten them at least a little sympathy.

But yeah, let 'em have their due process. I think by going nuclear and launching this lawsuit, they're going to just get more negative attention out of it. Oh well.

[nikvulper.livejournal.com]

*sees ball, grabs opportunity to run with it and comment on his Christian, Eagle Scout, Child Molesting, Valedictorian* Obviously their agenda works!

[nius.livejournal.com]

Well, in typical KYW fashion, the articles are short-form radio reporting and do not reflect the entire situation.

The Cradle of Liberty Council agreed with the nondiscrimination policy - in fact, they adopted a council nondiscrimination policy in 2003, see http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303280,00.html

The National Council ordered them to revoke it, to the point of sending a Cease and Desist letter!

The Wikipedia article mentions more, though the Philadelphia Inquirer article concerning the Cease and Desist is unfortunately a broken link at this time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Liberty_Council

It's unfortunate that this situation is being forced into the courts, but it was inevitable. Either the CoL continues to discriminate in order to receive funding from National, or they get kicked out of National and are forced to become a local camping club. You can't have a "satellite" Boy Scouts organization, you'll be violating the IP held by National.

The BSA sucks rocks, I hated all my Boy Scouting experiences (though Cub Scouts was excellent). However, I cannot fault the CoL for their myriad attempts to appease all parties in this situation and only as a last resort being forced to succumb to the pressure and have the decision made in the courts.

[unclekage.livejournal.com]

I wish I could remember the name of the gentleman who said this:

"Throughout my youth I went to Catholic School and was educated by nuns. At no time during my education, nor since, have I been inclined to become a nun."

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

I tried to be interested in scouting. But my troop never did anything and I didn't really care about the rank thing. Since I seemed to be busting my hump and getting nothing from it, I just walked away from it.

[tlttlotd.livejournal.com]

Wow things are getting easier in scouts. They threw me out when they found out my parents weren't married (I was a "bad moral influence on the other scouts").

[silent-o.livejournal.com]

I was never a scout, but I do have an additional reason not to like them.

Anybody wanna guess who has to risk their own safety when scouts get lost in caves?
My friends in the NSS.(One day I'll be among the rescuers.)

Also, they are disrespectful to the fragile ecosystems.

Real cavers have a creed:
"Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but (carefully placed) footprints, kill nothing but time."

Sorry if this was off topic, I've just wanted to say that for quite a while.

[giza.livejournal.com]

I don't know what Scouts you interacted with, but virtually every event I was on (including my 2 week backpacking stint at Philmont Scout Ranch down in New Mexico), the scouts were quite series about safety. And safety training (First Aid, what to do when you get lost, etc.) was a pretty regular thing in the Boy Scouts.

I also don't know what you mean about ecological damage. In the Boy Scouts, we had our own "outdoor code", and were pretty hard core about it when camping. I know that my troop would regularly and religiously police the campsite after all the equipment was packed up but before we left, and picked up anything that even resembled litter.

[silent-o.livejournal.com]

Specifically, the ecological damage I am referring to is in the caves. The scouts and scoutmasters may not mean any harm, but a careless step here or a pit stop there can have serious repercussions. Caves are pretty much barren of food, and the native fauna have adapted to that. By bringing in foreign nutrients, non-native bacteria and planarians can establish a foothold and kill off the original tenants, thereby disrupting the food chain. (This is why we pack out our waste, even the liquids.)


I'm not saying that the organization as a whole is maliciously defacing caves. I believe the damage is due to ignorance on the part of the scoutmasters.(who probably mean well)

If you wish, I can send you a few links that further expand upon the issue.

[giza.livejournal.com]

Links would be awesome.

FWIW, I've never gone caving, and I was in an active troop. I don't know if it was a regional thing, or simply something that wasn't done when I was in the Boy Scouts (late 80s, early 90s).

I agree that it's probably due to ignorance, since packing out of waste usually isn't something that's done when camping or backpacking.

[squnq.livejournal.com]

Browsing around, I'm afraid I have to agree that the lawsuit has legs. Reading the complaint, the BSA have a legal claim to the building. The city also cannot discriminate against them (as a tenant, per se) for their practices, if tenancy law is anything like it is here, I as a landlord cannot discriminate against tenants for their beliefs or practices so long as they're legal and don't damage the property, and that goes for organizations as well - I am a landlord with multiple properties so I have to be versed on the applicable laws.

As long as it's legal for a private organization in PA to have discriminatory membership policies, it's likely the city is going to end up on its ass in court. In the wake of California's gay marriage decision, progressive-minded communities all want to make a public stand in order to capture additional business or gain notoriety on the national or world stage, but the city appears to have bungled this particular attempt, unless they're simply doing it to be able to say "see look, we're progressive!" regardless of the legal outcome. The city are hardly heroes and the BSA are hardly villains in this debacle.

While gay rights activism is nice and all, I think anger tends to blind activists to the practical sides of the struggle. And I'm quite gay, for what it's worth.

[wildw0lf.livejournal.com]

The whole thing really is unfortunate. I got my Eagle quite some time ago, but I haven't been involved with Scouts since, mainly due to their stance on sexual orientation, and possibly due to my own sexual preferences.